Re: ::scr goldfish future

[matt jones <jonah@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

Simon Batistoni:
>Education *should not* be about cramming kids full of facts. Facts
>are completely fricking useless without a mindset which can do
>wonderful things with them. Education is about stimulating a
>child's curiosity. About furnishing it with the tools to explore as
>much or as little of the world as it likes. 

(Simon B)++

>I think it's absolutely essential that kids be taught primarily how
>to get the most of the huge available resource base which the
>internet now is. 

That's true, but what a lot of people ignore is the huge amount of 
inaccurate or outdated information in the internet. Many a time I've 
tried to back up a point, only to have it pointed out that the web 
page to which I'm referring is either woefully pants or has been for 
at least several months. 

A lot of people swear by Google, but at the end of the day, it's just
a search engine. If you only give it crap to choose from, all you'll 
get is crap. I think we need more kwalitee-vetted resources on the net.

>But I think they also need to be taught how to
>contribute to it. Nettiquette, and careful teaching of typing,
>puctuation and language skills are all also vital, 

I agree that nettiquette is important, but I think that comes from 
experience. If you hang out in the right places, the amount of clue-
by-four that strikes you soon has you straightening up and flying right. 
Lead by example, and the people worth talking to will follow.

>That sounds snobbish, somehow, but I think it's a real danger.

Nah, that's not overly snobbish. Arguing with JEFFK is never going to 
be much fun.

>The one problem I have with absolutely relying on being connected
>for information, is that being stuck somewhere without a connection
>feels more and more like being blinded and having my arms cut off
>these days. 

My, that *really* strikes a chord with me. When I first moved oop here, 
I was totally bandwidth-free for a few weeks, and also later due to an 
NTL fsckup. It was appalling, which I guess is an indication of how 
spoiled I've become. But the most irksome thing was the lack of access 
to communications, not content. I'm not convinced, personally, that 
the important thing online is content, I subscribe to the notion that
it's connectivity and communications. I found the following (which you 
no doubt have all seen already) quite an interesting piece in that
respect).

http://firstmonday.org/issues/issue6_2/odlyzko/

>Eh? Even if the structure can look after itself 
[snip]
>it is ultimately meaningless to us
>unless it continues to function as a vehicle for human
>collaboration, communication and expression.

Bingo. 

>Hmm. This post is long, and straying towards (void)iness. I think we
>need more structure here. 

Oh. Apologies. :/

>1) How do we best educate children today, in order that they can
>take maximium advantage of the facilities of the net, with
>particular reference to net!=web.

I think this is a very important point. Usenet is a woefully under-rated 
and under-used resource. Isn't it google who controls the archives at the 
moment? Do you think that Google's groups link will change that? 

Almost every time I've had a tricky problem to fix, it's been sorted with 
advice gleaned from Usenet, discussion boards or clueful chums. Hardly 
ever from web content (as opposed from web interfaces to discussion
boards).

>2) Nettiquette, and furnishing the next generation with the
>knowledge needed to make the net a better and better place. How do
>we teach it?

I'd say by teaching good generic written skills in the first place[0], 
followed by experience and LARTing when appropriate. Worked for me (IMHO). 

>3) Is disconnectedness becoming an increasing problem for those of
>us who are most entangled in the net? Is this a problem?

To be honest, I've bben trying to cut down on my net dependence, which is 
why I've unsubbed from most of the high-traffic lists I was on if they'd 
stopped being educational. But like I say, i don't think it's any more of 
a problem than "traditional" academics would have if they couldn't get to 
thier library. All the net really adds in terms of content is convenience. 
I subscribe to the idea that communication and collaboration is the 
Internet's killer app.

That's probably not that contoversial here, is it? I'll shut up.

-- 
mjx
http://www.jisc.ac.uk/dner/

[0] Cue the whole presentation/form/style
vs. expression/functionality/content argument?